34 Comentários

1. Hey Rose just found your channel and I LOVE your gentle and measured approach to debating. No it wont generate the most clippable moments, but you can absolutely push back on bad arguments in your own way. I also like that youre aware of this and making the consious choice to pursue this style of debate and rhetoric despite knowing it may slow your channel growth. Mad respect bro

2. I would pay all the money in the world for Katharine Birbalsingh Demonmama debate

3. You're quickly becoming my favorite larva.

4. Dude I couldn’t last for than an hour and a half of your debate with her. I got really frustrated when you were acting very polite and she called you spineless.

   “Grow a spine and say it with your chest,” holy shit how is that a response to saying “hey I feel like your monologuing,” in the most polite way imaginable.

5. You should have made her like an idiot. You had multiple opportunities to make her look horrible

6. Honestly I think Rose handled it fine. His passive/politeness ended up being his greatest weapon because I didn't see a lot of people going for the "He's a bad faith bully" so much as just trying to go for his views.

   In a Xanderhaul stream DM did try to accuse Rose of throwing memes from the Hamz debate but immediately retracted to praising Rose and saying it was mutual banter when a chatter said they didn't like her anymore after she was so mean to Rose when he was so nice.

   So, I think the less aggressive way was the best way to go because now people have to criticize the points and not the person. Sadly people are doing the opposite to DM, criticizing her person and not her points.

7. You just didnt want to go full bloodsports. Which i commend. Id find myself in a psychosis if i was in your shoes

8. You are not too nice. You are holding yourself to a higher standard of integrity than most people do their entire lives. You simply need to stop enabling. Why give an abuser a platform? Why engage with an abuser? I see no point to it. I see no point in tolerating the intolerable.

9. Alot of this conversation went in the vein of debate instead of the actual discussion at hand. Most of the comments here aren't looking for any productive discussion or nuance. They're just here for blood and self-validation by denunciation. Disappointing.

10. The biggest problem I had with her arguements was that she said she doesn't think the problems will ever be totally solved but that closest we can get to solving them is somehow bad because it doesn't fully solve them.

11. Haven’t watched this yet but just to give my opinion on the question in the title, no, and I think “being nice” is rarely ever the issue with debates/discussions, unless you’re talking about not offering any pushback on problematic takes. Being nice here definitely made people more palatable to what you were saying than if you were antagonistic back at her.

    I was tearing my hair out at her not being able to answer your question about what “policies” she has for addressing the issues in schooling she’s concerned about, I think I would have totally lost it there if I was you.

12. Whilst you say you didn't enter the conversation wanting it to be about optics or simply "making her look dumb", sometimes when you are dealing with a particular style of debate, it is explicitly about optics. DemonMama is a Vaush'esque propagandist and has no particular interest productive conversation. She wants you to kick the ball to her so she can run off with it. As @hanzofharkir says, you have to simply "bully" DemonMama, and if she fails to engage with a question, restate it. The amount of times I have watched debates where DemonMama has somehow wiggled out of having to answer almost any charge at all is quite high.

13. this really 2 DGG orbiters malding over getting shit on by the same person

14. I haven't watched this yet but I don't think Hanz is a good person to talk about this with. He's been getting pretty deranged lately. It's nice to get a different perspective but I just wish for Rose to stay careful and not get pulled into the DGG crowd too much. He's too good for that.

15. While it was a waking nightmare, I think what Rose did was beautiful.
    DM got ample opportunity to explain her PoV on her own terms and was unable to even effectively construct a point. Rose only interjected just enough to hold DM to explaining her prescriptions And DM herself showed that they were empty.
    Perfectly done. Forcing someone to watch it is still a violation of the geneva convention though.

16. Yeah, I definitely like your style and Booksmart's style more than Hanz's. Nothing really against him, but I feel like despite the great points he makes and potentially could make get lost with his approach sometimes and kind of look bad optically especially when compared to how you looked in your recent debate. Just improve with what works for you is really the only advice I could see being best for right now maybe you could be more aggressive on some instances but… eh. Granted I feel like I need to watch more of your content.

17. I couldn't bear to sit through that debate (not your fault Rose), but if she really made fun of "policy-brained" people and literally said she's "not pragmatic" then holy shit my opinion of her is rock-bottom. How tf do you even reach that point where you say shit like that unironically?

    Like… I just can't even fathom it. If you don't have policy positions, fine, but actively being proud of that and thinking of that as a virtue is something that breaks my brain.

18. DM wouldn't be such a dumbfuck if she read the Wikipedia entry on fallacies and watched 2 or 3 videos about reasoning. Everytime she faces someone with the bare minimum amount of logical knowledge she gets flustered and screams bad faith, but it's not bad faith it's picking apart her own inconsistencies and showing them in her face. Your calm demeanor and genuine approach to pull back and try again and again to understand her points displays that to the audience. Keep it up.

19. Personally I think your calm collected demeanor really helped you. Everytime she tried to drag it down into insult territory it just kinda rolled off you and made her look bad faith, because she is.

20. Booksmarts can do it because chat pays him to keep going lol

21. Look at these 2 pathetic losers Malding over being shitty debaters. The Authoritative Policy guy and the budget Haz that got shit on by Vaush n Joe Lewis

22. Overall really enjoyed the chat. You're a bright spot in the space my guy.

23. While you can certainly be more tactically aggressive pressing people on specific points, I wouldn't change your overall approach. Someone as bad faith as DM is going to try to get you to come down to her level so she had actual grounds to argue that you're the overly aggressive bad faith one who won't engage with her points. You sticking to your guns largely made her strategy fall apart since she was treating you as though you were acting like she was when you clearly weren't. Because she has nothing else (and never does), and at that point she'd already double, triple, and quadruple downed on that, she couldn't back her way out of that corner and had to stick to it just to try to salvage some capacity to gaslight the audience into thinking she had a reason for treating you that way.

24. ehh i wouldnt take … rhetoric advice?? too srsly from hanz. like from what ive seen his suddenly overly aggressive approach has only really resonated with ppl who really hate the ppl he started railing against? i can say for my part at least even though i actually align with his positions on the schooling thing his behaviour during/after the whole debucle made me actually NOT want to agree with him lol, and from what ive seen the same can be said for a lot of ppl who were previously aligned with him. i think that your more passive approach made you look WAAAAAAAAAAAY better in comparison. the thing with demon mamas rhetoric style is that being overly aggressive with her, especially right off the bat kind of mellows out just how unreasonably aggro she can be. however when put in contrast with your rhetorical style it really sticks out how irrationally aggressive she becomes lol. it makes her acting out feel less justified. its like, if you bring up the wealth of two billionaires it doesnt really register in your brain how much money that is. but then if you compare visually the amount of money they have with, say, the wealth of your average wagie it really sticks out how outrageously wealthy they are. does that make sense…

25. Hanz the self proclaimed alcholic and narcissist.

26. This did make me sad because on other topics Demon Mama is so good at referencing data and relying on sane structures of evidence. I don't actually know if she's bad faith though or whether adhering to the principles of anarchism will just make it impossible to be productive I think it's an issue of that ideology not Demon Mama's character.

    Think of it this way, if you had to debate the idea of "School abolition" how could you do that with any coherence? You can't refer to peer-review evidence because it's part of the education machine. You can't refer to child psychology because that's a product of the indoctrination of education itself. You can't refer to anecdote because it's unscalable and you can't point to past examples because people don't want the living standards of that time.

    I think the problem was that Demon Mama mainly want's from these debates for people to ask questions and do an almost John Lennon's "Imagine" idea. It does suck because I like her reviews of a lot of things but in this she's just wrong and non-falsifiable. Still there's utility in that too now I know to look out for that in the questions raised by future debates.

    I'm an abolitionist on only a few issues gender being one but for the rest I believe there are good reasons for authority, the fact we can do surgery! That's something that 100% cannot exist in anarchism because without strict standards the "I reckon I know enough" combined with the "We kinda think this person has this issue" would result in so much exploratory surgery as the skill pool decreases because you have to inflict potentially lethal damage to a person who may not be dying for the chance to correct an issue that you're confident on only because the field exists.

    I don't ever want that authority to disappear.

27. Nah, Demonmama absolutely hung herself. You handled it really well.

28. I think the sooner DemonMama becomes irrelevant and the entire community just ignores her the better. She’s one of the WORST people to have advocating for left wing ideals. She’s such an awful person.

29. Does Rose Wrist have a set schedule for live streaming?

30. Beware the advice of Hanz, as he has contracted VDS.

    You did well to let DM poison herself on her own toxic personal attack rhetoric. You appeared very reasonable by comparison. You didn't need to bathe in blood. I am worried that more and more lefties and soc dems are flying away from each other because of personal ire. It's well known that our politics are different, but Hanz and Destiny seem to have a personal vendetta.

31. Hey Rose

    I like the fact that you're not super antagonistic and remain very cool and calm during debates and i like how you approach the debates, please don't change and become like other debaters there's plenty of em and you're unique and refreshing in your approach. I very much enjoy how you think and tackle these issues.

    keep up the good work broski

32. You being nice only made demon mama look more like a bad faith actor tbh, because she kept going on about your rhetoric being disingenuous, when it clearly was not.

33. Hanz is cool. So are you!

34. first